{"id":449859,"date":"2023-12-20T15:40:03","date_gmt":"2023-12-20T15:40:03","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/totalcelnews.com\/?p=449859"},"modified":"2023-12-20T15:40:03","modified_gmt":"2023-12-20T15:40:03","slug":"small-talk-big-looks-an-interview-with-nycs-small-talk-studio","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/totalcelnews.com\/entertainment\/small-talk-big-looks-an-interview-with-nycs-small-talk-studio\/","title":{"rendered":"Small Talk, Big Looks: An Interview with NYC's Small Talk Studio"},"content":{"rendered":"

This article originally appeared in ‘Hypebeast Magazine Issue 32: The Fever Issue.’ Please visit HBX to grab your copy.<\/em><\/p>\n

\n

In another life, Nick Williams and Phil Ayers could have been renowned tattoo artists. The duo behind NYC-based clothing brand Small Talk Studio built its name making one-of-one garments embossed with hand-drawn illustrations and embroidered graphics. They\u2019d drop a 24-hour custom order window on their Instagram, and the lucky few who nabbed a ticket would send the boys a list of visuals and personal reference points. Ayers and Williams would then mix and match the customer\u2019s picks with a medley of \u201cold faithful\u201d images\u2014essentially their version of tattoo flash sheets\u2014that they\u2019d painstakingly draw on denim pants, button-downs, and trucker jackets. <\/p>\n

The illustrations form a constellation on a given garment, akin to someone who\u2019s spent years getting inked until they have full sleeves and backpieces. And like tattoos, Small Talk drawings are bold statement pieces chock-full of imperfections that reveal the human hand, ensuring that each order is truly intimate and inimitable. Their visual vernacular ranges from timeless iconography like cupids, pin-up girls, botanical images, and baby devils, to niche cuts like vintage Tang logos, bootleg Bart Simpsons, and the 1996 Montreal Jazz Festival poster. The designs \u201calmost turn into an I Spy composition,\u201d says Ayers. The through-line amongst the disparate imagery is the customer\u2019s personal interests (and Small Talk\u2019s signature touch). <\/p>\n

There\u2019s an \u201celement of trust between the customer and us,\u201d the duo says. \u201cThey don\u2019t know what we\u2019re actually gonna draw on their garments, so it\u2019s a big leap of faith,\u201d one that results in a cherished piece that no one else in the world has. <\/p>\n

Small Talk\u2019s approach has led to a true-blue fanbase, including repeat customers, as well as a commission from Virgil Abloh before his tragic passing. Their reputation also catalyzed collaborations with brands like Adish, Karu Research, Carhartt WIP, and Gitman Vintage, where they were offered free reign to take the established labels\u2019 garments and \u201cfreak \u2018em\u201d in their own style. <\/p>\n

After a few years of focusing on customs, Williams and Ayers opened a studio on the 14th floor of a pre-war building, smack-dab in the heart of Manhattan\u2019s Garment District. The space is cozy, well-lit, and adorned with Small Talk\u2019s own illustrations on the walls and furniture. It\u2019s also where they keep the designs for their first two cut and sew collections, one for Fall\/ Winter 2023 and the other for Spring\/Summer 2024.<\/p>\n

Both collections include around two dozen unisex designs with few illustrations but lots of secondary treatment to the fabrics, such as dyes and embroideries. The fall release features a silk mohair jacket and wool pintuck trousers that Williams describes as a \u201cpsychedelic Western vibe,\u201d whereas the spring collection was inspired by \u201carbor-glyphs,\u201d or markings on trees, which manifests in garments like pants made out of crinkled gauze fabric that resembles the texture of bark. Small Talk still plans to continue its bespoke business, but the goal with the whole – sale items is to \u201cfind a visual language that bridges the gap between the all-over super graphic customs and [the designs] that are a lot quieter and more understated.\u201d <\/p>\n

The clothes will be offered in stores like Blue in Green, Colbo, and Cueva in New York, Super A Market, Hollywood Ranch Market, and Domicile in Japan, as well as boutiques in Los Angeles, Philadelphia, and Melbourne. Williams and Ayers want to establish \u201clong-lasting relationships with more independent retailers, rather than immediately going for the big fish.\u201d<\/p>\n

Ultimately, the duo strives to make clothes that are \u201ctoo personal to give away,\u201d heirloom fits that are versatile and can be dressed up or down. And like a good tattoo artist, the source of each design should be immediately recognizable: a Small Talk Studio joint.1 of 3<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/span>Christian Michael Filardo<\/span>2 of 3<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/span>Christian Michael Filardo<\/span>3 of 3<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/span>Christian Michael Filardo<\/span><\/p>\n

Prior to starting Small Talk Studio, did either of you have design or fashion experience?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Phil Ayers:<\/strong> Not traditionally. I worked at Pilgrim Surf + Supply for about three years and was doing free – lance illustration with a few different clothing brands. But before that, I worked in a totally different field and was just doing painting and illustration on the side. Both of us come at Small Talk from an art background, and that informs our approach to apparel design. <\/p>\n

Nick Williams:<\/strong> We have a bit of an outsider perspective since we\u2019re not traditionally educated in garment design. That flips the equation a little bit. When I moved to New York, I was working for a housing nonprofit and teaching art to adults at this supportive housing facility in Brownsville. For about eight months, I would go there three days a week and teach, and then work on Small Talk on my off days. Eventually, Small Talk got to the point where I could do it full-time. <\/p>\n

What led to Small Talk being successful enough to focus on it exclusively? <\/strong><\/p>\n

Nick Williams:<\/strong> The transition from part-time to full-time happened really fast. It was basically a combination of good press\u2014like an interview with Blackbird Spyplane and then a profile along – side a couple other designers in the Wall Street Journal\u2014and also getting commissioned to make a custom piece for Virgil Abloh. This all happened in the summer of 2020 and it brought a lot more attention to the operation. I basically spent the summer trying to keep up with the orders that were coming in for custom garments. That fall, I felt that there was enough demand for the two of us to do this together full-time. We officially started as a duo in January 2021, and from seeing Phil\u2019s work, I already trusted that we\u2019d be able to collaborate together well. <\/p>\n

How did things change once it became a partnership? <\/strong><\/p>\n

Nick Williams:<\/strong> It took about three months for us to really merge our styles. Phil\u2019s style is a lot cleaner, with a little more saturated color, and he also has a heavier hand. I have a brushier style, and use lighter shading. We started experimenting on pieces together while talking about how to make the style a little more cohesive\u2014not to the point where you couldn\u2019t tell who did what, but just so that it felt like one piece coming from two sets of hands. <\/p>\n

Phil Ayers:<\/strong> I brought in an old t-shirt that I practiced a couple drawings on. Then we just jumped right into passing custom pieces back and forth across the table to one another. I think it\u2019s nice because even if there are apparent differences in the style of one drawing to the next, there\u2019s so much going on in any given piece that when you just step back and look at the whole composition, it feels cohesive. <\/p>\n

Does one of you excel more at illustrating certain kinds of imagery? <\/strong><\/p>\n

Nick Williams:<\/strong> We\u2019ve been doing it together long enough now that we internally know who should do what. At this point, we both can do whatever comes our way. There are just certain things that one of us likes to do more than the other.<\/p>\n

Phil Ayers:<\/strong> I think the big one that we joke about is that we get asked to do a lot of pet portraits. And I always tell Nick that\u2019s on him. A lot of people want their dogs drawn on our jackets or pants. <\/p>\n

Something I find interesting about Small Talk is that there\u2019s a lot of diverse imagery used, but it all feels like it\u2019s part of the same constellation. How would you describe the visuals that the brand gravitates towards?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Phil Ayers:<\/strong> It differs between the custom stuff and what we do for cut-and-sew. It should be noted that for every custom piece we do that\u2019s a one-of-one, we have a dialogue with each customer and we ask them to send us a stream-of-consciousness list of references and images that are meaningful or significant to them. That\u2019s the jumping off point for researching and sourcing all the images for a garment. At this point, we\u2019ve built up a library of images, so maybe 60-75% of the illustrations are unique to that person, and then there are old faithful images that we like to draw and know will work well. It almost turns into an \u201cI Spy\u201d composition or something\u2014a bunch of disparate objects that don\u2019t necessarily have anything to do with each other, but you put \u2018em all together on an individual customer\u2019s piece and the thread that connects them is that person\u2019s interests. <\/p>\n

Nick Williams: <\/strong>We like to find some balance between imagery that comes from the natural world and commercial imagery. I think some of that has to do with our own lifestyles. Our studio is in Midtown near Times Square, so we\u2019re constantly bombarded with all kinds of commercial and artificial graphics. It\u2019s really fun to recontextualize those visuals. Plus, both of us just love the outdoors in general. Phil\u2019s a big surfer. I love to climb. We both like to hike, camp, swim in lakes and rivers\u2014all that shit. I feel like the juxtapositions come from our city mouse, country mouse lifestyle.<\/p>\n

I also remember you telling me about a binder full of image references and ephemera you\u2019ve collected, almost like a tattoo flash book? <\/strong><\/p>\n

Nick Williams:<\/strong> We have a few binders and a lot of that stuff has been scanned. Due to the pace of everything we\u2019re making these days, a lot of our references come from digital sourcing, going back into the archive, and pulling stuff that fits. But then when we get a project like the one we just did with Karu Research and MR PORTER, where they gave us free reign to do whatever, we really dive into some weird shit. A lot of the imagery for that collaboration came from this old book called From India to the Planet Mars<\/em>, which chronicles the life and work of this artist H\u00e9l\u00e8ne Smith. She held seances where she intended to communicate with a whole world of Martian beings and made automatic drawings in the process. I originally found the book on a public domain archive. <\/p>\n

Phil Ayers:<\/strong> Similarly, when we did a capsule for Carhartt WIP last summer, we had a couple months to source imagery and we definitely got a lot of stuff from The Whole Earth Catalog. We also got a lot of references from our friend Kiyo, who has this massive, impressive collection of vintage outdoor gear called Monroe Garden. He has a permanent showroom in his apartment, and he showed us all these crazy old climbing and mountaineering catalogs from the \u201860s and \u201870s. We pulled a lot of images from those and incorporated them into those garments. 1 of 3<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/span>Christian Michael Filardo<\/span>2 of 3<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/span>Christian Michael Filardo<\/span>3 of 3<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/span>Christian Michael Filardo<\/span><\/p>\n

What\u2019s the process like when doing the illustrations for a custom piece? Do you have an idea of what the finished product will look like from the jump? <\/strong><\/p>\n

Nick Williams:<\/strong> We never really plan out the design of an entire garment at once. We usually start with one big image that feels like a good anchoring piece and then work out from there. Luckily, we\u2019ve never had a situation where we\u2019ve started that organic process and gotten to a point where it doesn\u2019t work. <\/p>\n

Phil Ayers:<\/strong> I think another cool part of the whole process is the element of trust between the customer and us. With most garments, especially expensive garments, you know exactly what you\u2019re getting. Here, though, there\u2019s an element of surprise. People are sending us references, but it\u2019s a very vague, amorphous list of things. They don\u2019t know what we\u2019re actually gonna draw on their garments, so it\u2019s a big leap of faith. There\u2019s always a surprise, but fortunately, all our customers seem to be pretty happy with the final product. <\/p>\n

It does remind me of tattoo culture in the sense that flawed or imperfect tattoos are actually better, in a way. An artist\u2019s individual touch should show itself. <\/strong><\/p>\n

Phil Ayers:<\/strong> Yeah, it almost looks better and is more meaningful when you can see a small element of the human hand and human flaw in a particular drawing. You can tell it\u2019s not mass-produced. I think people appreciate and respond to that.<\/p>\n

Can you talk about the materials and design approach for the cut-and-sew collection?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Nick Williams:<\/strong> It helps to be able to put together a full collection where there\u2019s 20-30 pieces that all play off of each other, kind of like putting together a body of paintings or sculptures where one thing doesn\u2019t have to fully represent the brand by itself. We find something to nerd out on and get really deep into it. This past spring collection, it was a book of tree carvings\u2014arbor glyphs. We\u2019d collected a bunch of images, which made me think about leaving your mark on nature\u2014mark-making and mark-taking. That was combined with really trippy depictions of the natural world, like medieval horticultural manuscripts and these hand-drawn QSL radio calling cards that truckers used to make and distribute. The latter doesn\u2019t necessarily have anything to do with the natural world, but the calling cards had wild images that resonated with us, and the way the images were made and shared had a lot in common with the tree carvings. <\/p>\n

Those are turned into a very loose aesthetic guide for sourcing fabrics, coming up with images to embroider, and creating treatments, which, in turn, inform everything from drawings on garments to embroidered motifs\u2014and even the fabrics and material. For example, there\u2019s a pant in the spring collection that has a bark-like texture to it, a crinkled gauze fabric. And for the 2023 fall collection, we went for a psychedelic Western vibe with pieces like a fuzzy silk mohair jacket. It all emerges from the same place that our custom garments would, but it\u2019s just translated in a different way. Plus, people like to see the hand-drawn stuff side-by-side with the cut and sew items and how they inform and play off one another. <\/p>\n

Phil Ayers:<\/strong> The cut-and-sew silhouettes are more like things that we want to wear, things that we feel have somewhat of a timeless appeal and a unisex quality about them. I also want to emphasize that on top of sourcing quality fabrics and dialing in our patterns and silhouettes, there\u2019s so much secondary treatment to a lot of these garments. We have all these great vendors we work with here in the garment district, whether it\u2019s an embroiderer, dye house, or specific printers. We start with a nice fabric, a nice fitting garment, and then add our own sort of visual language to freak it a bit. There\u2019s a lot of experimentation and trial-and-error that comes along in those processes, but that\u2019s the Small Talk way. It also ties it back to how we approach the custom garments. 1 of 3<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/span>Christian Michael Filardo<\/span>2 of 3<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/span>Christian Michael Filardo<\/span>3 of 3<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/span>Christian Michael Filardo<\/span><\/p>\n

Have you noticed any patterns or trends among Small Talk consumers and fans?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Phil Ayers:<\/strong> We definitely have a solid recurring customer base, even with the custom garments. We\u2019ve had a lot of people who\u2019ve ordered two or three at this point, which is sick because we usually only leave the custom order window open for 24 hours. People are usually queued up waiting for that. <\/p>\n

Nick Williams:<\/strong> It\u2019s hard to say for sure, but obviously everything is at a pretty high price point. So there are definitely people who are heads and are willing to save up money or run the credit card up and purchase a piece, which is great because that\u2019s also how I buy clothes [laughs]. New York is still our biggest customer base, but we\u2019re both pretty hyped when we see orders come in from tiny towns in the Midwest. Imagining people in small towns rocking these really loud clothes makes me very happy. It\u2019s very easy to wear whatever the fuck you want in New York because nobody bats an eye, but it\u2019s a bit more of a risk to wear some of the stuff we design in a small town where you might stand out a bit more. <\/p>\n

Is there an ethos or mantra you embrace that represents the Small Talk vibe? <\/strong><\/p>\n

Nick Williams:<\/strong> From a bird\u2019s-eye view, the super-general ethos to how we approach everything is raw and DIY with very heavy attention to detail. That\u2019s combined with high-end materials, durable construction, and meticulous execution. Somebody once described our work as heirloom garments in a very flattering way. They\u2019re too personal to give away, but in the best-case scenario, they\u2019re something that you would pass on to a kid or someone else special in your life when they\u2019re no longer serving you. <\/p>\n

Phil Ayers:<\/strong> We want our pieces to look good and be functional, but we also believe clothing should be fun, and our clothes are fun to wear. There\u2019s so much minimalist stuff out there, and we obviously now have quieter pieces too, but we\u2019re just trying to strike a balance with the louder stuff. Ultimately, we\u2019re hyper-conscious of how much work and money goes into making each garment. So it\u2019s important we make sure this shit is long-lasting and that these garments are special enough that people are going to make them cherished staples in their wardrobe for years to come.
\nSource: Read Full Article<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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